On the 15/03 Pixel went to Rotterdam to get to know more about the city and visit the project spaces, WORM and V2.
At WORM he had a meeting with Walter Langelaar, that showed him the facilities and the hackerspace Moddr (photo below). The phrase Pixel picked to describe his experience in Rotterdam: “feeling like home”
12/03/2012
Interview 2
Julia Bac and Pixel (Amsterdam)
Do you believe that the fact of being here for already two weeks has influenced in the way that would normally work?
The project I am doing is together with Sander. I don’t think that the environment is influencing so much in my decision making process, but Sander’s way of work is different than mine. What is nice is that I want to experiment the way he works here and he wants to try the way we work over there. Because there is a different reality here related to the culture of mobility. Not only related to connection, but here people have effectively more access to technology. I have the impression that is more simple to target people with a project for mobile here than in Brazil.
The fact that I am visiting museums, visiting other spaces and the cultural activities that I am doing inspires me for new ideas. The experience of getting to know the city, having free time and thinking about the project in different environments, also influences the project. But, this will only be noticed ahead when we’ll have the software and when we start to add content to the software.
What is the current status of the project?
In general terms, what we want to do is already established. The basic lines of the project are ready. Now starts the phase of experimenting the project. Experimenting the possibilities of interaction, the development of a prototype.
We will see what it works and this would be kept in the first prototype of the project. I would say that this is the “prototyping experimental” phase of the project
You will develop two projects. What leaded you to do these two projects and not choose only one?
I wanted to experiment this online environment established here, develop something that would be good for this context and Sander wanted to develop something that would be good for Brazil. The first project is the “Powerpoint Walks” that is part of the proposal that Sander and me sent for the residency in Augmented Reality. The second is related to mobile technology, but is not an Augmented Reality. The second project will be developed if everything works well with the first one.
We want to present information that modifies the way people relate to the space, the information can be or not stories. We have been researching on open data, public data that we could use. But, so far we haven’t found anything that could be effectively relevant. Therefore, there is a challenge there… is something that we would like to try. But… well, Annet (one of the organizers) had already mentioned this back then, that it would be difficult to find data that would be interesting to trigger people to react with the system. We are just facing this aspect now.
Last Friday we have chosen the priorities of development. What should be done first and what comes afterwards. What are the initial priorities and what is accessory, than we continue following phase by phase.
And which are these phases?
The first phase would be to create a demo of the project. So, create a structure with the idea of the project. This demo would have the basics, the presentation of the content for the user, which in a way is an interaction. The first content would be still textual. From that point on we want to think about other types of content: graphic and with two or three dimensions, and also research more about open data. This is still experimentation. See what works and what doesn’t works. After this phase, we choose what should be kept in the project. And from that on we’ll build the content system management to enable people to collaborate in the project. After, think about how people will interact with each other using the system, create dialogs or making what is inside the system to dialogue. From stage of the development of the CSM, is already the implementation. After this we start doing the workshops.
The idea of gathering the public would be through these workshops?
Yes, in the beginning. In the workshops we would present the project and create content on the streets, we would walk around with the people on the streets. We wish to encourage people to continue to create content and spread the word about the project. From the moment of implementation of the CSM we already start to circulate and use content created by us, but this is parallel.
In Brazil you work with a team. How are you experiencing working with people from here? That you didn’t know before and also didn’t choose.
For the Jandig Project we did an open call. So, the experience of working with “strangers” happened already there, because I met people during the project. But Jandig was also an open process in which the participants were changing all the time. Some people would join and some would leave the project. In this project Sander and me have a commitment with the project. The idea of working together was a suggestion from the organizers, but me and Sander agreed to work together and share experiences, and I think both of us enjoyed this experience.
I like to work from home, and I have the impression that with Sander is the same. If we were working in different projects would be more difficult to have this exchange in the residency.
In the first interview you mentioned that you would like to disconnect a bit from Brazil, did you manage to do that?
Less than I would like to. I managed to disconnect a bit. Living in a different place is a way of disconnecting from Brazil and connecting in things here.
Do you think that you could plan and think on the proposal as much as you are doing if you were not here?
No. From there I wouldn’t have this residency experience. Also if I would have started the other way around would be much more difficult for me, having appointments and people trying to reach me. Is harder when you have an agenda. I planned this month to dedicate to the project and Sander planned for the next month, when he is going to Brazil.
In one of your videologs you mention about your process of creation…
I think that in the end I am working the way I am used to. Sander mentioned that he starts with the concept. But, the ideas are changing a lot, there is new ideas coming all the time. Some ideas we discover not to be so good and we look for what to prioritize. The work is changing, changing a lot, actually.
What would be a “not good” idea?
The idea of working with open data initially sounded a great idea and now we are facing the fact that might be not so good.
You mentioned that a few data you found were not so interesting. What would be the type of data that are not so interesting?
Show people how much the government spent building each public property, for example. How much was spent on building a bridge? This could even be part of the project, but doesn’t trigger people to interact with the project…there’s something missing. Actually, we are facing a difficulty on finding data. We talked to people working with open data in Brazil, we asked for information about which would be interesting data. But they didn’t reply. And if they didn’t reply probably is because they have difficulty in finding it. Because to make any sense, within the technological limitations existing, these data should be very specific. Related to specific areas of a city. This specificity is not easy to find and there is also a difficulty of dealing with these information.
Would you choose the same data in The Netherlands and in Brazil?
One of the things that, at least from my perspective is interesting, is a project that connects both countries. But, we still didn’t find something that would create this connection. One of the things we are considering to do is to show different perspectives of the city: I would show my perspective of Amsterdam and Sander would do the same in São Paulo. But this is our connection with the city and not of one city with the other, or one country to the other.
You presented the project to some people. What was the most interesting feedback that you had so far?
No one gave a feedback that changed completely the project. No one said: “why don’t you do it this way…”. I think they still need to see what will actually be, just explaining is not so simple. That is why we should work on the demo.
What is your goal for the last two weeks?
Develop the prototype. I think that at least have the prototype working the way we wanted. I would like to have this ready here, so we can modify the prototype there. So, the goal is to achieve a prototype in which I can have a walk through the city and put my experience in the system, but depending of the difficulties we will find during the process of work and what we will find out, we could finalize or not the prototype. Or maybe a great change would happen and we could decide to do something very different.
How this prototype would be like?
Would be to get the system to work, but fed only by Sander and me, without other people participating yet.
On Wednesday, the 7th of March, Sander and Pixel gave a informal presentation for the Nimk staff about their AR project.
Sander presented projects he developed with AR, starting by his first augmented reality project with QR codes on the ground and mentioning his project proposal about story telling. Then, Pixel also explained his initial proposal, that was to continue developing the Jandig project. He explained that he is interested on the reaction by the public towards technology or public space, for example.
They also talked about their ideas for the project. Such as the AR Power Point “walking through the city from slide to slide”.
The artists showed how the content would be presented by adding AR on the facade Museum of Art of São Paulo (Masp) as an example.
10 days of the first phase of this artistic residency. The major concern right now is to define the concept that will be expressed through AR, raising fundamental questions such as: Why the artists will develop this specific project? What is the significance? Who is the target group?
After Pixel told Sander that Internet access for smart phones in Brazil is not so common, they thought about exploring an offline project, based on Pixel’s developments in Brazil. Also, researching in the collection of the Nimk for “pre-internet” artists that made works related to communication. This idea changed towards targeting specifically the ones that have access to Internet.
The main areas of interest from both artists are related to the city and story telling. The use of images, videos or a “Power Point image like” are being considered, as well as statistic data.
After almost one week since Pixel’s arrival the concept is being developed throughout meetings accompanied by many teas, coffees and colas. Today, during their third meeting Pixel and Sander showed the first sketches of the developments of their ideas so far. The project will include story telling and information about the city, but the outcome is still not 100% agreed yet.
14/02/2012
Interview 1
Julia Bac (Amsterdam) and Pixel (São Paulo) via Skype
Would you explain a little bit of your project proposal for the residency?
I like to work with “collaborative projects”, where people can participate actively in the project. Initially, I sent the proposal of working on Jandig for the residency. The organizers saw some similarities between our projects and suggested that we could combine them into one single project.
What do you mean with the term “collaborative project”?
In this context, collaborative projects are open to interference. In Jandig, the collaboration is done through the development of the project and the application. The planning and development of the project was done by people interested in the project proposal and had the will to develop it. This group of people developed the website (http://memelab.com.br/jandig), the software (https://market.android.com/details?id=com.memelab.jandig) and an open call for digital objects. The open call gathered approximately 40 objects. 10 of them were selected and from that were made specific AR markers to each object.
This project can be presented in different ways, depending on the interference of the public. Anyone can access the website, download and print the markers, also the software is available online (including the code). This makes it possible for the ones that are interested to download the content and create an application of the project in a specific context. The markers can be displayed anywhere. They were displayed in a few neighborhoods in São Paulo, and for example at the event Campus Party 2012, we distributed stamps, stickers and T-shirts as markers, in a way that people could choose how they could appropriate and present the project.
One time I was giving a talk about the Jandig project and there was a woman in the audience that collaborated to the project sending one artwork. She said that she liked the idea of having artworks spread in different contexts, not only in front of her computer inside her house.
Would you comment on the images that are displayed at the Jandig website?
Those images were sent through the public call and selected to be part of the project, so there was a kind of curatorship. Because every artwork has a marker, what we see on the website are the artworks and the markers.
Briefly, can you tell how technically this project works?
We developed a program that you can download and then there are “markers”, such as stamps or stickers for example, in which the AR can be accessible. Each marker is related to an artwork that was sent to us. The result is an exhibition, but in a different context, than a galley or museum, for example.
You talked for the first time with the other artist from The Netherlands. What was your first impression and what are your expectations for working together?
I think I will learn a lot working together with Sander. It is also a chance to get to know a different culture and elaborate a project in another country, this is something important for me right now. When we spoke, it was nice to know what he was working on and also the fact that I developed a AR project in which people can download the software before accessing the AR. The way Sander work you need to have Internet access, this is a significant technical difference between our projects. Now we are going to elaborate something combining these two ideas and we will try to create something together.
Did you know about Sander’s work before this residency project?
When I was researching for the Jandig project I saw a guerilla action using AR at the Moma. I didn’t know Sander was part of that project, but when I was talking to Gisela, (one of the organizers of this residency project in Brazil), she told me that he was part of it and I thought was an interesting coincidence.
How come you started to be interested in Augmented Reality?
What triggers me is the fact that augmented reality can be taken to different places, not just inside your house on the computer screen, but on the streets, or anywhere.
My first work with AR was using the game PONG from the 70s and I enjoyed to work with that and decided to explore more.
What are your plans now, before you arrive in The Netherlands?
I think that I will still have a talk with Sander before I leave to The Netherlands. But I think I will start working more intensively when I arrive, on the 28th of February. But for now I am really anxious in going to The Netherlands and also try to be away from all the things I am involved here in Brazil, will be a great challenge. I will try to be really “disconnect” so I can focus on my work over there.
Sander Veenhof
Sander Veenhof was born in The Netherlands in 1973. He studied computer science in the University of Amsterdam and in 2009 he graduated at the Rietveld Academy in the instable media department.Nowadays, based in Amsterdam, he works as a digital media artist. His works in augmented reality explores the possibilities of interaction through mobile devices, such as smart phones, of virtual and non-virtual realities.He has “installed” these possibilities of enlarging reality in places such as the Moma, in New York (2010) with the guerilla project “Augmented Reality Art Invasion”. He also intervened at the Venice Biennial with the “Battling Pavilions”(2011), and at the Rotterdam Film Festival, with the project “Meet your Stranger” (2012).
Project Proposal
The first intention for this residency period was to continue developing the experience he had in the previous years using the applications Layar and Junaio for augmented reality with the project “the city talks”, in which the public would follow a story through the streets and choose paths that would also change the direction of the story.
VJ Pixel
VJ Pixel, Ângelo Moscozo Silveira, was born in Brazil in 1982. Nowadays, based in São Paulo, Pixel is the Director of the memelab – laboratory of interactive technologies, which is a space for the development of technological creations, giving consultancies for different clients, working in events and developing artistic projects. Example of one of their projects is the installation “photolink”, which consists of a projection of aprox. 100 x 3 meters that throughout the event “sesc na viarada”, displayed for 12 hours images that the public contributed by downloading their photos via USB, Bluetooth or memory cards in a totem. Afterwards, these images were selected and projected in the façade of the Sesc Belenzinho building.
Project Proposal
Pixel’s proposal for the residency is the project called “Jandig” in which a public call is open to people to send images. This images, photographs and 3D images are collected and gathered in a software. Then, artists are invited to create markers as stickers, stamps or prints, which would be displayed through the city. The result of this would be an AR exhibition based on what was sent by the public. At the present moment the software is already being implemented but still needs to be finished.
